How Indivisible Mobilized the Nation w/ Dani Negrete

This transcript was automatically generated and may contain errors.

[00:00:00] Cayden Mak: Welcome to Block and Build a podcast from Convergence Magazine. I’m your host and the publisher of Convergence Cayden Mak. On this show, we are building a roadmap. For the movement that’s working to block the impact rising authoritarianism, while building the strength and resilience of the broad front that we need to win.

[00:00:25] This week on the show, I’m joined by the National Political Director of Indivisible, Dani Negrete. As you may likely know, indivisible is one of the national organizations responsible for more mobilizing over a hundred thousand people across all 50 states for last month’s hands-off protests, and they’re driving mass action in response to all of the threats posed by MAGA in this moment.

[00:00:45] We’ll explore how that organizing happened and where we go from here. But first, of course, these headlines. Last Friday, the Mayor of Newark, New Jersey, and Democratic candidate for Governor of New Jersey, Ross Baraka was arrested for quote unquote trespassing at Delaney Hall, a local immigration detention center.

[00:01:02] The center was recently reopened to handle increased ice activity in the region, and his trip to the facility was initially to observe conditions there. He joined a crowd of protestors outside the gates after leaving a secured area. Upon request, officers came out and arrested him there. Anyway, this week he and his lawyers are of course disputing the absurd charges, which could result in up to 30 days in jail if he’s found guilty.

[00:01:26] Prosecutor for the case and the Interim US attorney for New Jersey. Alina Haba spoke on Fox News a few days before his arrest, platforming Trump propaganda, talking points about the facility and targeting Baraka by name. In a sane world, we would see counter charges of entrapment and targeted harassment.

[00:01:45] If you’d like to hear more directly from Mayor Baraka and other elected officials and advocates who were there on that day, working Families Party, hosted a national call about the incident that you could watch on YouTube. We’ll put the link to that in the show notes. Over the winter, we highlighted the wins that grassroots organizations had at the ballot box using direct democracy to pass popular policies that benefit working people.

[00:02:08] It shouldn’t surprise anyone that in many states those wins are being threatened by right-wing lawmakers. Missouri voters passed a set of progressive measures last fall covering paid sick leave, raising the minimum wage in the state, and enshrining the right to reproductive freedom in the state constitution.

[00:02:23] GOP, the GOP caucus and the state legislature, however, is working to undermine these wins. In addition to working on legislation that will roll back the paid sick, sick leave law. They’re fast tracking a referendum to put the abortion amendment back on the ballot, potentially in a special election. We know that special elections often have extremely low turnout, which can be really advantageous for the far right, and this exact playbook is not new when it comes to how the right uses this power to overturn popular, progressive policy, especially in aggressively gerrymandered states.

[00:02:55] Missourians are of course fighting back. They rallied at the State House this week and they’re getting organized, including building a coalition that’s working to prevent the legislature from overriding successful ballot measures that the majority party doesn’t agree with. We’re gonna be following the story more as it unfolds.

[00:03:11] And finally, I think it’s worth shouting out the new mayor of Omaha, Nebraska, John Ewing Jr. Who defeated hardcore MAGA Inpu incumbent Gene Shar. This race was supposed to be a Shu in for Shar, who was running for her fourth term, worried about the dead weight of being associated with the Trump Musk federal cuts.

[00:03:29] She leaned heavily away from MAGA economics and into anti-trans culture war scaremongering to motivate her base. She got burned. It feels really timely because last week at the Narrative Power Summit, I got to talk about block and build strategy in conversation with other trans organizers who are seeing this born out in message testing campaigns and other efforts across the country.

[00:03:51] Polling from the transgender law Center, for instance, shows that across ideology people resonate with the idea that people should be allowed to pursue self-expression and belonging and linking the anti-trans panic as Ewing’s campaign capably did to the desire of the far right to dismantle any semblance of public service.

[00:04:09] And a social safety net is a winning strategy that welcomes trans people back into the popular coalition against fascism.

[00:04:19] Sound on Tape: Hello, I’m Marcy Ryan and I’m the print editor for Convergence. If you’re enjoying this show like I am, I hope you’ll consider subscribing to Convergence. We’re a small, independent operation and rely heavily on our readers and listeners like you to support our work. You can become a [email protected] slash donate.

[00:04:38] You’ll find a direct link in the show notes. Subscriptions start at just $10 a month, or you can make a one-time donation of any amount. At any donation level. Know that you’re helping to build a better media system, one that supports people’s movements and fights fascism. But at $10 monthly and above, you’ll have access to exclusive content and event.

[00:04:58] If you can’t afford anything right now, don’t worry. Our shows and print content will continue to be free for you to enjoy. You can also help by leaving us a positive review or sharing this episode with a comrade, a friend, or a family member. Thank you so much for listening.

[00:05:19] Cayden Mak: So the Indivisible project began in 2016 as a viral guide to resisting Trump’s agenda, and it’s since grown into this national network of thousands of local groups, millions of activists across every state. Last month there were a major part of the organizing effort behind the hands-off protests, which saw 1300 rallies take place across all 50 states, the largest single demonstration against the second Trump administration so far.

[00:05:42] Joining me to discuss how. That national organizing happens. And also what we do with the momentum that it’s built is the National Political Director of Indivisible, Dani Rete. Dani, thank you so much for joining me on the show. 

[00:05:54] Dani Negrete: Thank you so much for having me, Caden. It’s great to be on. 

[00:05:56] Cayden Mak: Yeah, I always appreciate you taking the time to talk with us and uh, you know, I have really appreciated your like, political and strategic acumen.

[00:06:05] So 

[00:06:06] Dani Negrete: I honestly, the, uh, opportunity to be in community with folks and share. The different ways that people are coming together in this moment and thinking about the particular challenges and the reality of the crisis is so important, and having an opportunity to chat with you today is just great. I’m happy to be here.

[00:06:28] Cayden Mak: Awesome. Well, let’s talk a little bit about the shift from, I mean, I think this continues to be something that I think is really worth, like digging deep on talking about and thinking about together is the difference between 2025 and 2017. Um, could you tell me a little bit about the ways that Indivisible has adapted over the past, like six months to really meet the moment that we’re in?

[00:06:51] Dani Negrete: Yeah, for sure. I mean, one of the. Immediate realities that we faced coming into this second Trump administration That was, uh. Stark difference for all of us. Uh, from the first is that he won the popular vote and we understood that he was coming into, uh, the White House and back into Washington DC with what he believed to be a mandate and with what many elite actors and institutions bought into as a mandate.

[00:07:21] Mm-hmm. Even though it was a historically narrow popular vote win, uh, on historically narrow lines. Uh, it was convincing enough for enough people that they were willing to look at this extremist and unpopular agenda and really consider whether or not they could find their own role in it. Uh, and that was not, uh, the same dynamic that we were dealing with in 2017.

[00:07:46] Uh, for, uh, folks who remember. Back in 2017, Donald Trump was seen as more of an anomaly. Mm-hmm. His election was, uh, a fluke. It was the result of a, uh, you know, historically, uh, challenged campaign, uh, that was run, uh, by the Democrats that year. And, uh, his, his entry into. Uh, his role as a politician and as president, uh, was really not seen as an indicator of where the country was at.

[00:08:17] That refrain of this is not who we are, was very common in, uh mm-hmm. The first Trump administration. It’s much harder to say that nowadays. Um, and, and that there’s obvious reasons for that. But that difference, um, that, uh, shift in understanding of his role and how long he’s gonna be here. Is, uh, really informing how we’re thinking about organizing in this moment.

[00:08:41] Cannot be building a movement, uh, that’s trying to go back to 2023 or 2022. We can’t be building a movement that’s trying to go back to 2015 even. We need to be working with people across the coalition to build a really big tent that is envisioning what the next era of, uh, American politics looks like.

[00:09:04] Uh, because unfortunately, this era has been defined by Donald Trump as a center of gravity, um, since 2014. Uh, really, uh, that, uh, you know, white House correspondence dinner, uh, that allegedly set everything off. Yeah. Uh, but, uh, that, what that means for us in practice is that. We’re, yes, we’re looking at how we engage with, uh, Congress to prevent the worst harms of the Trump administration, but we also have to be looking at much, uh, more significantly about how states cannot just resist, but defy this administration’s agenda.

[00:09:43] Uh, we’re seeing, uh, you know, early on a good number of state’s, attorney generals, uh, attorneys general, uh. Make big moves with lawsuits against the Trump administration to try to stop them. But part of making those successful, part of making sure that, uh, those are seen not just as legal wins, but political wins mm-hmm.

[00:10:04] Is making sure that people understand the power of the states and what Blue States can be doing. That’s one thing. Another thing is making sure that we’ve got, uh, activists and organizers. Who are seeing the different levers of power outside of elected office. So there are businesses that very quickly, uh, either supported, uh, Donald Trump as part of the, uh, oligarchy, or have at the very least, uh, you know, capitulated to, uh, the administration’s, uh, preferences.

[00:10:36] Law firms, uh, very quickly, uh, started to react to the Trump administration by complying in advance and giving him, uh, and the administration what they demanded and schools, universities, uh, education as a, uh. Really core, central piece of civil society, uh, needs to be understood as an actor in this and not just a, uh, uh, you know, target for the administration to take its workout on.

[00:11:06] So part of it is continuing to build local power as we’ve been doing since 2016. But the other part of it is orienting folks understanding of power and where it’s mm-hmm. In their lives. 

[00:11:20] Cayden Mak: Yeah. That’s great. And I feel like, I feel like that expanded power analysis is so important because of the way that like, basically the, like strong executive has become like part of our cultural understanding of like where power exists in our society and like largely to our detriment.

[00:11:39] Um, and like that’s been a trend since really the seventies that like. It’s, it’s not by accident, right? 

[00:11:47] Dani Negrete: Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. And the, um, the gulf between individuals, uh, you know, individual voters, individual constituents, and the, uh, power that is held, uh, and. Either weaponized or leveraged or influenced on their behalf, uh, feels brighter than ever before.

[00:12:09] If you’re an individual voter and you, uh, want to have an impact on the course of the government or the course of our political history, it feels very difficult to see that, um, mm-hmm in your own life. But when you work collectively with a network, with a local indivisible group or in coalition, uh, with a, you know, a.

[00:12:31] Like working families party or your move on, uh, allies, whatever it may be, uh, that you’re putting your, uh, individual power collectively together and you can see it move much more clearly. Uh, and that’s what we try to do, uh, with the individual group model at the local level. 

[00:12:52] Cayden Mak: Yeah, let’s talk a little bit about that group model, because I think that one of the things that I find so compelling about the work that you all do is that like you’ve really been able to like leverage these local chapters and like build leadership and protagonism at like local and regional level that then helps turn out people to, whether it’s like a call campaign to call into congress or like showing up in the streets.

[00:13:12] Um, could you talk a little bit about like, I mean, I also think that there’s like a thing that’s like in the, like during the Biden years, like. What, what did, what also did that chapter model look like? Um, and, uh, you know, what does leadership development look like within Indivisible? Yeah. So, uh, 

[00:13:31] Dani Negrete: we are so fortunate that this.

[00:13:35] Network of local groups exists. And one of the, the really special things I think about Indivisible groups is that they’re autonomous. They’re, this is not a top down network. Uh, they operate within the bounds of their own, uh, you know, established community. Norms and expectations. Uh, and within those groups, they are able to elevate leaders, determine how they wanna operate.

[00:14:03] We offer them strategy, we offer them guidance and messaging, and, uh, you know, many ways to engage, take actions by calling their member of Congress or visiting their, their, uh. Member’s office. Uh, but many of them are simultaneously focused on hyper-local issues and state level issues, and that’s how they’re bringing in a lot of new and, uh, not yet engaged folks because people see the impacts of their, uh, you know, the local power that, uh, indivisible groups have.

[00:14:35] Uh, it’s. Uh, a really beautiful thing when, uh, I get the opportunity to meet with and talk to indivisible groups and realize that they’ve been running robust campaigns around state and local issues that, uh, were not in my field of view from the national level, but they’ve been doing it with a high degree of sophistication and a.

[00:14:57] Really clear strategy because, uh, these are just local nodes of power that have been popping up across the country and continue to grow, uh, day after day, month after month. Um, and you know, on the, on the note about the, the Biden years, I will say, uh, that’s where we saw some of the most impressive work at the state and local level because, uh, you know, we very quickly went into a situation where.

[00:15:24] Uh, Democrats had trouble moving things through Congress because, uh, Manchin and cinema were, uh, intransigent on the, uh, uh, major priorities that, uh, the, uh, administration was trying to pursue. And then we lost the house, uh, shortly after that. And, uh, the ability to move things in DC was. Almost non-existent during that period, which made national level campaigning and national level, uh.

[00:15:54] Actions actually really hard to mobilize during that area. We were able to do some good work and we were very proud of the work that we did do, but it was really challenging and most of the narrative coming from, uh, Democrats and elected officials was look ahead to 2024. It wasn’t, what can we fix right now?

[00:16:13] It was, look ahead to 2024. We gotta retake the house and then we can do all the things. Uh. In the midst of all of that individual groups across the country were moving really important work at the state and local level that they were able to move. They were stopping the worst of Republican attacks on rights, voting rights, civil rights in red states.

[00:16:35] They were making big advances in purple states. We had a, uh, uh, incredible campaign run by Indivisibles, uh, in, uh, Arizona, along with a broad coalition of groups, uh, to get the Arizona abortion, uh, ballot initiative on the ballot. And, uh, you know, the other, uh, election results in the state in 2024 were rough.

[00:16:59] But, uh, we did see that abortion ballot initiative passed because there had been long-term work happening over the previous two years to make sure that at the state level we were still making progress. And so, you know, uh, I I, I think that was a big dynamic during the Biden years that is gonna continue, and I hope, I’m hopeful that it does, because that was a.

[00:17:26] Uh, as many people know, uh, a, a big oversight by Democrats during the 2010s was the power of the states and where you can actually develop and advance agendas. 

[00:17:36] Cayden Mak: Yeah. Yeah. And I think though, especially that direct democracy piece seems to be a really big deal increasingly where like, you know, it’s not an accident.

[00:17:45] I talked about the Missouri ballot initiatives that are like being undermined right now. Mm-hmm. Um, but that, like, that direct democracy. Aspect is also a place where again, it’s like we can really use that one to pass like policy that makes a big difference to actual human beings, but also builds that prota that like those are wins that are like meaty and mean something.

[00:18:10] Dani Negrete: Yes. Yeah, absolutely. And scoring those wins in uh, states one at a time, it is a hard way to go. It is slow going and it’s tough, but. One of the important things is that where we have power in some of these states to actually make these advances, you know, we wanna be creating hubs of. Liberty, uh, in some of the states where people can, uh, you know, have certain freedoms and there’s a real contrast between who’s trying to take them away and who’s fighting for them.

[00:18:43] Yeah. You know, uh, it, it sets up a clear dynamic that is beneficial to understand who, you know, you can’t hide behind court rulings if. The people voted for a, uh, ballot initiative, and there’s a handful of politicians who are actively trying to take it away. Uh, it, there’s, there’s a lot of opportunity to do that, especially in blue states.

[00:19:05] Blue states. I mean, uh, you know, JB Pritzker has been, uh, such a, uh. Fighter in these past six months, or I keep forgetting how long Donald Trump’s been in office. I guess it’s, it honestly is like 

[00:19:20] Cayden Mak: four, it’s four months. I know 

[00:19:23] Dani Negrete: it feels like it’s been two years and it’s been, uh, hardly a hundred days. Um, but, uh, Pritzker has been.

[00:19:31] Uh, really strong on this and is specifically on building a exemplary way for a state to operate under conditions like this. Uh, what you can do with state level power as a blue state with a blue trifecta, um, we should be exploring that and we should see Democrats exploring that in real ways. 

[00:19:52] Sound on Tape: Kind of 

[00:19:53] Dani Negrete: push the boundaries and say, if, you know, if you’re, you wanna take away freedoms here, if you want to, uh, you know, enforce a unpopular policy, you gotta do it.

[00:20:03] Cayden Mak: Yeah, 

[00:20:03] Dani Negrete: yeah, yeah. 

[00:20:04] Cayden Mak: Well, and, and that feels particularly alive to me because, like, I’m a Californian and Gavin Newsom is 

[00:20:10] Dani Negrete: question 

[00:20:10] Cayden Mak: mark. 

[00:20:13] Dani Negrete: I’m a, uh, California native, uh, and, uh, I’m from Los Angeles County originally, and it’s. It so wild to see the calculus that some people like Newsom are undertaking right now.

[00:20:29] Uh, but to it, it is a drastic miscalculation and I think, uh. Most people would assume that, uh, Gavin Newsom is undertaking some version of a calculation here. It’s not like these are deeply held beliefs that he has. 

[00:20:48] Cayden Mak: Yeah. Yeah. I think the one thing that’s become very clear is like, I’m not sure what his deeply held beliefs are, aside from the fact, like he’s, he thinks that he’s hot shit.

[00:20:56] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, 

[00:20:59] Dani Negrete: I, I, I. I love to, uh, podcasters and to, uh, the platforms like this, but I do have questions If you’re a governor and you’ve started your own podcast. 

[00:21:12] Cayden Mak: Yeah, yeah. It’s like you actually do have a really big platform already. My guy like, yeah, 

[00:21:17] Dani Negrete: yeah. You don’t need to, uh, kick off a, a new version of that with Charlie Kirk as your first guest.

[00:21:23] Cayden Mak: Totally. Yeah. I dunno. Just like the, there’s so many questions 

[00:21:29] Dani Negrete: and, you know, on, on the. Specific point about Newsom. He is, he is really exemplifying that version of, uh, the Democratic response to Trump in this era that looks so weak. So scared, you know? Yeah. You see this historically narrow, uh, popular vote victory, and your response is, well, I guess we gotta start adopting all, all the shit that he, uh, wants to the attacks on trans people and mm-hmm.

[00:22:08] Sound on Tape: Attacks on 

[00:22:08] Dani Negrete: immigrants taking away, uh, healthcare coverage for immigrant communities. And in, in the midst of all of that. W we actually have Democrats who are not only willing to do some fighting, but are being rewarded for it. Uh, yeah. And being, uh, celebrated for it, lauded for it. It’s such a clear choice point.

[00:22:30] I don’t. I understand what set of calculus you’re undertaking to, to go down the, uh, you know, Newsom path right now, but, uh, we’ll see before too long whether or not that one pays off. I’m doubtful. 

[00:22:44] Cayden Mak: Yeah, there’s, I mean, there, there’s one of the things that we’re always trying to do on the show is like, pay attention to, to what those signals might be.

[00:22:52] And I think that like the, um, you know, that that pathway is, it’s more than just capitulation, it’s collaboration on some level. Yeah. You know, the, like, the, the thing that worries me about it too is just that like. It’s, it then makes it so easy for people who are disillusioned with the state of politics to be like, look, see, they are all the same.

[00:23:14] We can’t do anything about it. It’s like, it, it feel, there’s a level on which it almost feels to me like a psyop, you know? It’s like, right. I mean’s like demobilizing. It’s demobilizing. It 

[00:23:24] Dani Negrete: is demobilizing. And you’re, you’re doing their work for them. Exactly. Uh, in, in tangible ways. There’s, uh. You know, Newsom may or may not love, uh, uh, you know, the current state of the Democratic Party.

[00:23:41] He, there’s a lot to be said about. Uh, changes that need to happen within the Democratic Party. Uh, but if your, uh, approach to reforming the Democratic Party is just to make it more like the Republican party, you’re actually not doing, uh, yourself any favors, especially if you’re gonna be the type of person who’s likely to.

[00:24:03] To campaign in 2028. Uh, you’re, you’re building their narrative for them. Mm-hmm. Uh, well in advance. Uh, and you’re never going to meet the expectations of the people who are already inclined not to vote for you. 

[00:24:19] Cayden Mak: Yeah. Yeah. It’s, it’s a yikes for me. Um, I think that, like, one of the things I also wanted that in some ways this is a, a good pivot point towards, is thinking about like these insights from this first four months, like looking where the kind of, at, where the hotspots are, um, about kind of like.

[00:24:38] What your assessment of our power in this moment is, right? That, like where are some of the opportunities that, uh, indivisible and your allies, like where you are thinking about leaning in and like leaning harder on certain fights, um, that maybe have emerged, especially I think over the past, the past couple of months.

[00:24:59] Dani Negrete: Yeah. So, you know, there’s, there’s a, a, a real truth that. Republicans in this moment where they believe they have a mandate, uh, are overreaching in as many directions as they can, and they seem to not have a concept of just how harmful that can be for, for them. Uh, one of those is reconciliation. Uh, right now, the, uh, reconciliation bill is a, uh.

[00:25:30] True example of touching the stove. Uh, they have, uh, made it clear that, uh, the services, the programs that working people rely on are under threat. Uh, and they are happily. Running headlong into a fight where they have to defend, uh, the indefensible. And, uh, that is an area where we are really looking forward to leaning in and making sure that people understand the stakes of the reconciliation fight.

[00:26:01] They understand it’s not just reconciliation, but it’s how it’s gonna impact your own, uh, home. Uh mm-hmm. Most, most people are, say the word reconciliation, you’re gonna glaze over, which is totally fine. But when you talk about, when you talk about, uh, attacks on Medicaid and mm-hmm. How that will impact your community and your family, that is essential for so many Americans.

[00:26:26] When you talk about, uh, you know, uh, the numerous communities that are currently engaged in this fight and how they’re being actively dismissed by their representatives. Constituents who are, uh, outright ignoring calls. They’re outright, uh, refusing to do town halls because they wanna hide away from the details of this bill.

[00:26:51] That resonates with people. And what we can do as a organizing group, as a organizing movement is put, make sure that those moments are visible. Make sure that those, uh uh. Choices that Republicans are making to ignore their constituents and hide behind, uh, their leadership, uh, is seen, is understood to be an active choice, and that they are choosing to pursue a harmful piece of legislation rather than protecting their own constituents.

[00:27:23] So the reconciliation is a big one. I also have to say immigration specifically is like. It has been the one thing that so many Democrats and progressives have been afraid to touch because Donald Trump just consistently pulled higher on immigration throughout the election. Mm-hmm. And into this year. Uh, but he has so clearly overreached on immigration.

[00:27:48] Because he has no concept of what people actually voted for him for. Um, the idea that he can enter office and start talking about deporting American citizens or enter office and begin a regime of disappearances and, uh, uh, abductions, uh, basically without any consequence, the, the, uh. The story of Kmar Abrego Garcia, uh, among several is just inherently morally abhorrent to most regular people, and focusing in on those stories and making sure that those.

[00:28:32] Examples, those narratives and those faces are out there and people understand what’s happening on the streets in the country that they live in, uh, is a place where we think we can, can make some inroads, have some real, uh, conversations with people about the behavior of this administration. And so we are leaning in there too.

[00:28:55] We wanna make sure we’re showing up with immigration partners and allies, um, so that this doesn’t fade from the story and it’s taken as mm-hmm. A, uh, you know, implicit permission structure for Donald Trump to go further as he ramps up his deportation, uh, uh, machine. Um, so, yeah, you know, the, the, that is all, those are specific issue areas that we’re.

[00:29:18] Taking on and fights that we are eager to have. But in the midst of all of that, we’re doing these mass mobilization efforts. And, uh, it, it’s about building a big tent no matter what issue or fight it is that is bringing you off the sidelines and into action. And it’s like a whole other body of work and mobilization, uh, to, to make these moments happen.

[00:29:45] But it. It is important to just to show people, show institutions, show other actors that we are not alone. Mm-hmm. We are, we are mobilized in this moment together and we have an opportunity to show the world that we don’t stand for this. That mandate is bullshit. Uh, it’s not real. It never existed. And the vast majority of this country is in alignment that we support our, uh, democratic, uh.

[00:30:18] Government, a system of government. We actually like liberal democracy to a degree. We’re not looking for this authoritarian military parade style, uh, you know, government of by and for Donald Trump. And having those moments, uh, leaning into those visuals and those fights mm-hmm. Is actually a really important thing to do in this moment for Indivisible and for all of our coalition partners who we’re very excited to be working with.

[00:30:45] Cayden Mak: Yeah. Honestly, watching Chuck Grassley getting get yelled at about immigration was like pretty 

[00:30:49] Sound on Tape: spicy. Yes, 

[00:30:51] Cayden Mak: yes. Seeing that clip, like honestly, I’m like, oh yeah, like it’s happening. Right. Like that kind of, that made my day in that way of like, it’s like, oh, like it’s not just me fretting about this and thinking about this and, and worrying about this.

[00:31:04] Like all of these just like, I don’t know people honestly also who are not like me, right. Who are like. Let’s 

[00:31:10] Dani Negrete: go like, yeah, this old guy in Iowa, our life experience overlap might be zero, but uh, he is pissed off at Chuck Grassley because Chuck Grassley is not standing up for due process. Uh, I’m pissed off at Chuck Grassley.

[00:31:25] ’cause Chuck Grassley’s not standing up for due process. All right. Like, like, let’s be in conversation. Let’s be in community together. 

[00:31:33] Cayden Mak: Yeah, I mean that’s, I like, if, if there’s, if there was ever a, ever a example of like what the popular front can look like here, like 

[00:31:41] Dani Negrete: Yeah. Yeah. I, you know, uh, there’s a lot of people talked about the broad coalition that, uh.

[00:31:52] Uh, Harris brought together the Cheney, the Chomsky. Mm-hmm. Uh, you know, uh, big tent, which, uh, you know, you need more people in the tent. Uh, it can’t just be the tent poles who are, are holding it up. Um, but, uh, you know, seeing those. Quotes, uh, those quote tweets from the new Pope.

[00:32:15] Oh yeah. I could be, I guess I’m in coalition with the new Pope. Yeah.

[00:32:24] Cayden Mak: Yeah. You know, and I think, I think the opportunity, right, and this is like consistent with our analysis as well, is like the opportunity is also to take those narrative moments to like pull people towards us. To pull people towards like, uh, like actual, sort of like leftist, I. Center of gravity instead of like letting the sort of like, kind of like center left if you wanna call it that, sort of like pull us towards something normative and like look towards.

[00:32:56] A, a visionary version of what the popular front could be, which is exciting. I 

[00:33:00] Dani Negrete: mean, if the, one of the most, uh, beneficial doorways to walk through and to, you know, political consciousness is just, you know, like the simple acknowledgement that something is wrong. So like, this is this. The shit isn’t right.

[00:33:20] And we need to, to, to fix this because once that doorway’s open, you’re actually looking, uh, you know, yes. At the immediate crisis, which we need to, uh, address and organize for. But you’re looking for solutions broadly to what brought us here, uh, the, uh, work that, uh, you know, a OC and uh, Senator Sanders have been doing to.

[00:33:45] That continue to hammer, hone the message about the oligarchy during this period is really important because, uh, you know, it, it’s one thing to be pissed off about Trump and Trump alone, but being able to connect that to his enablers and to mm-hmm. The, you know, systems of power that are supporting and upholding the administration right now.

[00:34:09] Uh, is actually a good long-term power building, uh, strategy that is gonna hopefully keep people engaged beyond, uh, you know, the era of Donald Trump and really give them a framework for continuing to engage with politics, um, and in an ongoing way, and understanding what, what continues to be wrong. 

[00:34:33] Cayden Mak: Yeah.

[00:34:34] Yeah. Well, and I, I, I feel like I’ve been seeing a lot of this too, just sort of like anecdotally from like my corner of the universe where people are more interested in the conversa, like the analysis that we hold and has really driven a lot of our work over the past several years around this being sort of the like apex end game of a 50 60 year strategy from the far right.

[00:34:57] Right. That it, this is not like, this doesn’t emerge. Organically, this emerges out of trillions of dollars of investments over decades. Yes. In like, think tanks, spokespeople, politicians, uh, like. Like legal scholars that like, it’s, it’s, it’s part of a, it’s part of a package deal that like, I mean, we could go even maybe beyond the civil rights era to like the, the, like labor movement wins for the twenties and thirties even.

[00:35:26] Um, yeah, as part of, part of this, part of this backlash. Like this is a, this is a, a long arc game that they’re playing. Um, and I think people are more interested in that conversation now than I think they’ve ever been, which is interesting to me. 

[00:35:39] Dani Negrete: Yeah. Well. You, you’re right that it is like the apex of, uh, their political project and they have had the, you know, a long-term political project that they’ve been able to organize their party around and their, you know, even outside of the party, their enablers, parts of their different parts of their coalition has been organized around a really clear, uh, political project that was encapsulated in Make America Great again.

[00:36:09] Uh, it was. We have to take things backwards. We have to turn back the clock on the 20th century. Uh, and the, uh, you know, asymmetry is the it. It is hard to identify the political project that our broad coalition has been operating under. If you there, is it even one to argue for, um, that, uh, you know, yeah, yeah.

[00:36:38] Right. And, and being able to, um, unite people in opposition during this time is. A good stand in for, for, for the moment. You know, opposition is a strong, uh, organizing force. Uh, but it is true that the, the, uh, true strength of their long-term power building has been a unifying project. Uh, and, uh, hopefully there is a, um, uh, you know.

[00:37:11] Identifying a unifying project across a broad, uh, diverse coalition. A big tent coalition is very difficult. Um, but one of the things that can help that is local level power where people are. Uh, taking back into their own hands, their political destiny and determining what they will put up with and what they won’t, and determining what they actually wanna achieve with that political power that’s back in their hands.

[00:37:37] And, uh, driving towards that really clearly and telling everyone what they’re driving towards. You know, the, the, um, uh, I think real. Uh, benefit that we have is people like, uh, you know, progressive politics. People like the policies, uh, that we generally pursue that, uh, we don’t, we are not, uh, constrained by a need to lie, basically.

[00:38:07] We like, like the right is. Yeah. And so we just need to. Step into that a little bit more fully. Um, and we do that by having people at the local and state level with, uh, really robust centers of power that they can leverage. 

[00:38:22] Cayden Mak: Yeah. Uh. The other thing regarding those local centers of powers, I do wanna ask you also ask you about the relationships to other organizations, um, and like how that shapes the approach to the work, um, and how, how you all operate in coalitions in ways that like both respond to conditions while holding to some North stars around, around values and politics.

[00:38:46] Yeah, I mean, uh, 

[00:38:48] Dani Negrete: the, uh, coalition work. I don’t, you know, it’s always been important. It’s always been central to how we think about building power. And uh, one of the really great things in this moment is that we’ve seen a lot of new formations, new, you know, organizing vehicles. 50 51 is a great example here of, uh, new, uh, actors in this space that, you know.

[00:39:18] Maybe made up of long time activists and, and people who have been demonstrating for a long time or new folks. But the, the, you know, organization itself is new and so many of us are trying to, uh, engage new voices, respond to our existing bases, and also respond to all of the crises that are happening every day flowing out of, of DC and.

[00:39:47] We can’t do that without actually building deep connections and being responsive, not in a transactional way, but in a collaborative way to, uh, the other organizations who have also been doing this work for a long time and who have been organizing with their own communities. We, um, uh, uh, you know, hands off was a really great example of this where, uh, we, uh, in coalition with a.

[00:40:13] Large number of other groups said April 5th is, is gonna be a day for mobilization for action in the streets. And, uh, as we were pulling this together, other, other groups who you know are. Not in regular communication, but are in broad coalition with us. Were doing their own work and building their own, and people were bringing to the table the things that were mobilizing them.

[00:40:40] And what is most important right now is not to say, well that’s, that doesn’t fit here, but to figure out how it fits here, we gotta figure out. Mm-hmm. How to build the containers to make sure that we’re fitting in all of the people who have breadth energy and. Strategy and experience to make our movements stronger and, uh, not close doors and say, well, maybe that’s, you know, that’s for another protest or that’s for another, uh, action.

[00:41:08] We’re trying to do the same thing with No Kings, which is the mobilization that we’re building for on June 14th. Um, it, it is. Really rooted in, uh, the idea that we as a people reject authoritarian politics. We reject the corruption that we’re seeing right now and, uh, within those frameworks, there’s so much to talk about to bring to bear in this moment.

[00:41:35] It’s not just about whether or not you think Donald Trump should be a king or whether, uh, you know or not, you are opposed to his military parade. You know, military parade or not, he’s spending millions of dollars on that while he’s trying to cut services for working people. That is an angle that so many people can, can step into, even if your particular organization or your, uh, coalition, uh, network is more focused on, uh, you know, the economic impacts of this moment.

[00:42:09] Rather than the authoritarian political threat of this moment, this is relevant for you. Uh, you know, uh, there’s. A lot to be said about how, uh, Donald Trump is trying to take away, uh, other centers of power. He’s trying to, uh, consolidate power within the executive, within his, uh, political project. Uh, and those other centers of power are the things that will prevent us from having a king in this country.

[00:42:37] Worker power, union power is a key example of that, and so we’re really excited to be working with. Labor partners in this mobilization, uh, to turn people out. Um, there, there is a space for anyone who is activated and mobilized in this moment, and we want not to just, uh, you know, mix all of that in and.

[00:43:00] Say that we’re, uh, you know, uh, consolidating under one message, but we wanna make sure that those messages are emphasized. Mm-hmm. We wanna talk about those things because that’s gonna be mobilizing to an audience that maybe not everyone else in the coalition is able to reach right now. 

[00:43:15] Cayden Mak: Yeah, no, that makes good sense to me.

[00:43:17] And I think that the, I’m excited about the, like, like labor social movement, like unity, like that feels like such a big. Um, piece of the puzzle here and, uh, you know, I, I recently had Alex Caputo Pearl from United Teachers Los Angeles on talking specifically about, you know, if we wanna actually be about.

[00:43:38] Like a 2028 general strike that. We also have to like, have a hot labor summer every single summer from now until then. Yeah. That like the momentum actually matters and that like that, those kinds of, those kinds of coalitions and that kind of collaboration makes a moment like that feel more possible and more real to me.

[00:43:58] Dani Negrete: Yes. Absolutely. And the, uh. You know, Mayday was a really great example of this too, where we saw, uh, you know, a big coalition, but it was largely led by labor groups and by immigrant rights groups responding to, uh, not just the attacks of the day, which are significant and severe and need to be responded to, but also the history of mayday as an organizing vehicle and what it means, uh, and, uh.

[00:44:31] You know, people came at it from that angle. People came at it from the angle of like, Donald Trump is, is currently attacking our communities, our worker communities, our immigrant communities. And uh, it wasn’t just some assimilation under, uh, kind of odine banner. It was both of those issues heavily featured, um, uh, and really prominent in how people were thinking about coming to the table that day.

[00:44:58] Cayden Mak: Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. Um.

[00:45:04] I guess the other thing looking forward is like, how, like, I’m, I’m also curious about how you then use these sort of like mass mobilization moments to like, uh, like get people into a pipeline where they’re in, they’re taking like other meaningful political action. ’cause like, obviously I think. Being in the streets with people is huge and really important and like needs to be observed.

[00:45:29] But also I think there’s a way that like the sort of like media consent machine 

[00:45:35] Sound on Tape: Yeah. 

[00:45:35] Cayden Mak: Um, that we like live in that is like going to be dismissive of almost anything that we do that is like, I don’t know, sort of like public facing in that way that is like we’re getting, uh, uh, or like. Perceived to be sort of like the, like typical tactics.

[00:45:54] Right. Um, and so I’m, I’m curious about the like, uh, like progression of engagement that you all are thinking about and like moving people through that process. That is also about like. You know, when I think about organizing, I also think about organizing as a personal transformation process on top of a like power building process.

[00:46:12] So I’m curious how you see and like how you’re trying to like move people along a journey like that. 

[00:46:18] Dani Negrete: Yeah. So you know, the. We have these, these moments, mobilization, I’m sure we’ve all heard the phrase, you know, a protest without a purpose is just a parade. And, you know, which is actually gonna be very appropriate on a day where, uh, there’s gonna be a military parade where in direct contrast with, um.

[00:46:40] But one of the things I’m really excited about in Building for No Kings on June 14th is that we’re offering not just our hosts, but all of our folks, a, uh, training series on the front end before the 14th on how to actually manage your event, how to build for your event, promote it, bring on volunteers, how to think about safety and deescalation, how to knowing your rights.

[00:47:05] Uh, we’re very excited. Uh, we’re gonna have. Um, uh, A CLU worked with us to do a know your Rights training ahead of that. Uh, but this is really about a high touch, uh, period where they’re, these folks have raised their hands, they said they’re engaged. There is a date on the horizon where they will be making a choice on whether or not to stay engaged after, uh, that uh, date.

[00:47:29] And, uh, so between now and then, we wanna make sure that we’re giving them the resources, the tools that are not just relevant for the 14th, but they’re relevant for ongoing organizing Yeah. Of their own communities. Uh, and then, you know, after when we get to the 14th, uh, it’s, we’re gonna be building with this broad coalition of, I think we we’re at 80 partners now for no Kings, um, across labor and immigrant right groups.

[00:47:56] And, um, uh. Broad swath of, of communities, uh, to be building with them what the next set of CTAs might look like for this audience to make sure that they’re continuing to engage in a way that feels additive and responsive to the moment and grows our power. So the next mobilization, uh, or the next protest, the next whatever it may be, is, uh, built by new voices.

[00:48:25] It has new bodies in, and people with a little bit of experience now because they’ve got a big one under their belt. 

[00:48:32] Cayden Mak: Nice. Yeah, I love that. I feel like the, the, this question of absorption has been like on the lips of like so many organizers that I talk to and that like, yeah, the, the need to develop leaders and many leaders relatively quickly is like one of the things that I think a lot of folks are thinking about.

[00:48:51] So, 

[00:48:51] Dani Negrete: yeah. And, uh, you know, the, uh, the vision of an organizing home is, uh. Really central to that conversation. And I think for a lot of, of newly engaged people, you’re like, oh, I, I, an organizing home means I need to join an organization or a local group, which absolutely like do join a local group. There’s thousands of them across the country.

[00:49:17] Indivisible groups, uh, are everywhere, uh, which is great, but also. You have the power to be your own organizing home and to start organizing yourself. Uh, get the resources and get the strategy that you need from the, uh, you know, sources, the organizations that you want, but you don’t need permission, uh, in order to take the next steps to start building your own basis of power in your own local community.

[00:49:45] You can be your own organizing home, uh, in, in many ways. But of course the best way to, to get those resources and experience, uh, to do that is by participating in stuff like mobilizations and trainings and working with groups like, you know, indivisible, WFP move on, um mm-hmm. Any of the, the other wonderful organizations, national or state level that do a bunch of work to bring people on board and train them how to, to organize their communities.

[00:50:12] Cayden Mak: Yeah. And there’s like tons of, there’s tons of places also to find the sort of like political education tools to like. Build unity in a group too. I mean, yeah. You 

[00:50:22] Sound on Tape: know, 

[00:50:22] Cayden Mak: I’m, I’m always talking about our like seven part block and build syllabus and I’m like, y’all use it. It’s out there. It’s free. It’s on the website.

[00:50:29] Yes. Yeah, 

[00:50:30] Dani Negrete: go for it. I, the incredible power of just having written something down is really something. To behold because it, the, it, that was the original, um, uh, you know, power of the Indivisible Guide was that there was something written down on a Google Doc that was getting shared and we, the. Our founders were not planning on starting an organization, but people started organizing around this thing that was written and it was out there.

[00:51:02] And, and so it kind of, uh, self-motivated, but yeah, really, really wonderful, um, to, to get those things down on paper and help build them. 

[00:51:13] Cayden Mak: Yeah. Yeah. And I think it’s a, it is a reminder that like things that. Move people can kind of come from anywhere. And I think that like we’re in a moment where like there is a lot of opportunity, um, you know, not necessarily like advocating for replicating efforts, but there’s like meaningful innovation to be done on our side right now.

[00:51:33] Sound on Tape: Um, yeah. 

[00:51:34] Cayden Mak: And that’s, that’s one of the things that like, I mean, is frankly, one of the things that’s the most fun about doing this show is I get to talk to a lot of the folks who are like. Trying stuff, like throwing that spaghetti at the wall and trying to come up with the ways that are gonna work for us in this next period.

[00:51:49] So, 

[00:51:49] Dani Negrete: yeah, I mean, the. We have to innovate and experiment because if we don’t, we’re gonna continue to fight the last war and somehow still lose it. 

[00:52:02] Cayden Mak: Yeah. Unfortunately, the last war did not go great for us, so Yeah. 

[00:52:06] Dani Negrete: Yeah. We, and we need to, we need to be setting the st the stage setting the terms for the next one.

[00:52:12] Uh, yeah. And we can only do that by. Being creative and thinking through what it looks like to be an organizer in this next moment. Yeah, totally. 

[00:52:22] Cayden Mak: Uh, well, I’m also sure that your brain is just like completely, like deeply occupied by a lot of these big political questions. Are there, are there things that you are doing right now also to like.

[00:52:34] Take care of yourself, recharge, and like, reconnect with, like what, what keeps you going in this time? 

[00:52:40] Dani Negrete: Uh, you know, I, uh, it, it’s funny that you asked that because, uh. I, I, I am a big Star Wars fan. I don’t know if you, uh, might have picked that up from my background here, uh, and, uh, and or which is just the most incredible show, just finished, but it is.

[00:53:00] So it feels so relevant right now. Um, I like come out of it. I come out of watching episodes and I’m like, oh, was I just working? Like, was I just in deep conversation about movement building and rising authoritarianism? Like, uh, but it is a, uh, uh, star Wars generally has been like a real, uh, balm for me and, uh, being able to.

[00:53:24] Bring conversations about and or into work and everything has been really invigorating. It’s been great. 

[00:53:31] Cayden Mak: Finally a show about inside outside strategy. 

[00:53:33] Dani Negrete: Yeah. And leftist infighting. Who doesn’t wanna watch several hours of leftist infighting. It’s really good.

[00:53:44] Cayden Mak: Yeah. It’s good stuff. It’s good stuff. And I, you know, I forget what the actor’s name is. The actor who plays, I’ve like always been fan. Yeah. Yeah, I’ve always been a big fan. Um, just like very, she, 

[00:53:56] Dani Negrete: she’s incredible. I’m very proma. Uh, you know, she, she actually, her first role as mamma was in deleted scenes for Revenge of the sif.

[00:54:06] Yeah, yeah. Which, which she was great in those too. But those scenes got deleted. Of course, those just, it just re-released Revenge of the Death a couple months ago, or a couple weeks ago now. Uh, and, uh, I was really. Hoping that they did like a special edition rerelease and put those scenes back in because she’s now like the star of the, one of their main shows.

[00:54:25] They did not, I was deeply disappointed by that. So 

[00:54:29] Cayden Mak: disappointing. Yeah. 

[00:54:30] Dani Negrete: Yeah. 

[00:54:31] Cayden Mak: Oh my God. Um. Fantastic. Yeah, I, I’m halfway through the second season of, of and or I, I, I’ve been traveling a lot the past couple weeks. Just not a lot of time to, not a lot of time for fun. Not a lot of time for fun screen. Uh, well, 

[00:54:48] Dani Negrete: if you’re about halfway through, I’d say it gets less fun.

[00:54:53] Cayden Mak: Yeah, I understand that too. I mean that makes sense. ’cause like, I mean, we all know what happens. I mean, anybody who’s following Star Wars knows what happens. ’cause Yeah. 

[00:55:01] Dani Negrete: Yeah. Um, uh, it, it, oh, go ahead. 

[00:55:07] Cayden Mak: I was just saying, just like culminating in, in, uh, rogue One, the best Star Wars movie, so, 

[00:55:12] Dani Negrete: absolutely. And you know that, that has been the thing that I’ve been thinking about the most.

[00:55:18] And, uh, uh, through, and or too is that so much of the storytelling there is about the regular people who don’t actually get to be the heroes at the end of the story. They, you know, are uh, uh. Some of them are spies, some of them are just regular workers who do the right thing in the right moment. Mm-hmm.

[00:55:38] And their story doesn’t typically get told, but they were central to making, uh, the death star at the end of episode four actually. Blow up and having the opportunity to highlight the fact that you don’t just need the people on stage. You actually need the people in the crowd. You don’t just need the elected officials who are gonna be up there giving long speeches or taking the right votes, but you need all of the folks who are.

[00:56:08] Doing the day after day after day work of maintaining, uh, you know, faith that our, our neighbors and our community have power, that we can make a change. That is a really incredible thing to see put to screen. And I’m just, I’m thankful that, uh, it got made. 

[00:56:25] Cayden Mak: Yeah, I mean, it’s a, it’s a very different story than the like, uh.

[00:56:30] Yeah, like chosen, like special chosen kids story that we’re used to, which I think is really important. ’cause like mm-hmm. I don’t know, we can’t all be special chosen kids, but we can be, we can be protagonists. 

[00:56:42] Dani Negrete: Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. And, uh, we need the, uh, we need the regular people to, to be right now. Yeah.

[00:56:51] We’ll get our heroes. Yes. 

[00:56:53] Cayden Mak: Well also, and also, look, nobody’s coming to save us. We gotta roll our own, so, yeah. Uh, Dani, it’s always a pleasure to talk to you. Thank you so much for making the time to chat today. Thank you, Caden. Thank you so much for having me on the 

[00:57:04] Dani Negrete: show. 

[00:57:06] Cayden Mak: Awesome. My thanks again to Dani Negrete of Indivisible for joining me today.

[00:57:10] We’ll always have the ways to connect with their work in the show notes so you can find your local indivisible chapter. Learn more about what Indivisible is up to, and, uh, find them on the internet. This show is published by Convergence, a magazine for Radical Insights. I’m Cayden Mak, and our producer is Josh.

[00:57:27] If you have something to say, please drop me a line. You can send me an email that will consider running on an upcoming episode at mailbag, at convergence mac.com. And finally, if you would like to support the work that we do at Convergence, bringing our movements together to strategize, struggle, and win in this crucial historical moment, you can become a [email protected] slash donate.

[00:57:47] Even a few bucks a month goes a really long way to helping our independent small team continue to build a map for our movements. I hope this 

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